Plus-size prejudice gets on my tits…

It’s been a while since I’ve launched into a good rant here, so I’m probably long overdue. I’d originally intended to post this blog on MyBBWSite, but then decided that would be like preaching to the converted. Anyway…

The story begins on a happy note the other evening when we were just sitting around watching the telly. It was between programs and the BBC was running one of their little 60-second news updates when this beautiful young brunette girl with reasonably-sized breasts appeared on the screen walking down a catwalk. The voiceover alerted us to the fact that this was Chloe Marshall, winner of the Miss Surrey contest and now the first-ever Size 16 girl to reach the Miss England final.

Although I generally question the value of such beauty contests, I must admit that I was most pleased to finally see someone shaped like a real woman with voluptuous curves and actual breasts – Chloe stands 5’10″, weighs 12st8 (176lbs) and sports a 38DD bustline – not only entering but going on to win amidst an event typically dominated by “stick-with-tits” chicks harbouring Size 0 aspirations (if they’re not there already) as are conventionally favoured by the mass media.

The following day, this article appeared in the Daily Mail along with photos of Chloe, who was quoted as saying, “I wanted to go through to the Miss England finals to break through the stereotype that you have to be tall and skinny. I wanted to make a bit of a statement. When I studied the other entrants for the Miss Surrey competition I concluded that pretty as the contestants were, they were equally all uniformly blonde and Barbie doll like.” And, despite my not being a fan of beauty pageants, I thought that if Chloe’s success in the contest circuit could help boost the self-confidence of just one other girl who didn’t fit into the ultra-thin mass media model mold, then it would prove to be a most valuable exercise.

Then I had the grave misfortune of encountering the comments that readers had posted in response to the article…

“She’s not going to win, its just a condescending sympathy vote.”

“She may be 16 but she could pass for 30. And sorry, but being 16 and overweight – and she IS overweight – is nothing to be proud of.”

“Yes she does look very pretty but she would look even better if she was slimmer. Does this reflect the state of the UK when even the beauty queens are now fat?”

…these incensed me to no end as, for all of the confidence-boosting potential that Chloe’s success could engender for those “bigger girls” who encounter this story, these few thoughtless, stereotypical individuals have dashed any hopes of that happening merely by opening their mouths (or, more accurately, moving their fingers). They should be ashamed of themselves, as the only “value” (and I use the term loosely) their comments hold are in propagating public prejudice against “plus-sized” women. I’d submitted a comment myself, but it has yet to appear there.

After all (having now finished my rant proper and moving on to more selfish motivations), where would MyBoobSite be if it weren’t for those larger ladies possessed of the self-confidence to share their beautiful bodies and breasts with us? Considering that busty girls built like Anya or Rachel are extreme rarities, I’d simply not have enough big boobs to fill my blog!

And so, inspired by Chloe’s quest to encourage acceptance of the more natural, curvaceous figure through the beauty queen medium, I thought I’d take today to draw attention to some of the delightfully voluptuous women with huge breasts that we’d come to know and love here over the years – specifically 36JJ Maria Moore, likewise 36JJ Alicia Loren and 38K Bianca Bloom – courtesy of DivineBreasts.com

Maria Moore 36JJ at DivineBreasts.com    Maria Moore 36JJ at DivineBreasts.com    Maria Moore 36JJ at DivineBreasts.com

Maria Moore 36JJ at DivineBreasts.com    Maria Moore 36JJ at DivineBreasts.com    Maria Moore 36JJ at DivineBreasts.com

Alicia Loren 36JJ at DivineBreasts.com    Alicia Loren 36JJ at DivineBreasts.com    Alicia Loren 36JJ at DivineBreasts.com

Alicia Loren 36JJ at DivineBreasts.com    Alicia Loren 36JJ at DivineBreasts.com    Alicia Loren 36JJ at DivineBreasts.com

Bianca Bloom 38K at DivineBreasts.com    Bianca Bloom 38K at DivineBreasts.com    Bianca Bloom 38K at DivineBreasts.com

Bianca Bloom 38K at DivineBreasts.com    Bianca Bloom 38K at DivineBreasts.com    Bianca Bloom 38K at DivineBreasts.com

CLICK HERE TO VISIT ALICIA, MARIA & BIANCA AT DIVINEBREASTS.COM

…by the way, with regard to the latter model above, I should also take a moment to mention that Divine Breasts is currently running a special wherein, when you sign-up for a subscription with their site, you can get an additional membership in Bianca Bloom’s personal Playmate Site for just $4.95 extra! Click the banner below to visit the site to find out more:

DivineBreasts.com

(webmasters)

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34 Responses to “Plus-size prejudice gets on my tits…”

  1. Vadd Says:

    I saw a post on some entertainment blog about this. When looking at the pictures of all the girls together my eye went DIRECTLY to Chloe. She is magnificent. Truly a beautiful woman (even if she only has DD tits :P ). Now, I am one of the guys here who like slim and stacked babes, but really- all those other girls standing next to Chloe were like white noise. Just sort of there. I have seen their type a thousand times before. Pretty girls, to be sure, but NOTHING like the curvy, dark haired busty beauty standing next to them!

  2. Big Daddy Says:

    To be honest when your a bigger guy with strong hands from working you want something to hold onto. Nothing better than a big voluptuous women with big boobs.

    Slim and stacked is fine but some men like myself do not like to feel bones.

    Give me a woman with heft and flesh. So much more comfortable, feminine and sexy.

  3. Ctexsins_Chelle Says:

    Reese,
    Chloe is absolutely beautiful!!! I applaud her for being such a wonderful inspiration. Especially to other young girls. I was never a zero, more like a 3 to a 5. But everyone has let me know how much better I look to now have the extra cushioning there. When I was thinner alot of comments were made at how gaunt I looked in the face and how I also looked as if I would topple over at the slightest breeze. LOL Thanks to you , my husband and all the great commenter’s on this site as well as the bulletin boards!! I have to say, Way to go Chloe!!! Your fantastic, keep it up!!!

    XOXO Chelle

  4. Jes Says:

    Some of what I’m about to post may seem hypocritical (and, please, point it out as needed). But, it may be something worth thinking about.

    It is very difficult for one to find acceptance among those who compete on physical terms, nevermind the pressures of the arm-chair judges. I hope Chloe has the longevity needed to make it through. Simply because beating the odds once won’t earn any real respect (as shown by the posters at that other article). She doesn’t even have to win again, as long as she keeps competing, she’ll keep earning the respect of the others. Best of luck to you, Chloe! And I do hope you win!!

    But, there is something inherently sexy about muscle-tone on a woman. I wouldn’t want Chloe to lose any weight. I think she’s quite beautiful the way she is.

    However, a light weight-training regime would really help to accentuate her curves. And, it would show that she understands the all importantness of keeping healthy. Not thin, Healthy. (I’m not saying that she doesn’t understand this. I’m just saying that it would be physically and un-equivocally evident from the onset before she even says a word. Two ideal examples, to me, are Serena Williams and Laila Ali) After all, maintaining oneself is a cornerstone of beauty competition, is it not?

    It just isn’t in me to tell anyone not to work out. But, I wouldn’t call them fat until they do, either.

    Perhaps our good buddy Sam (founder of the 30JJ) can offer some balance to what I’m saying (or an opposing view, if he’d like).

  5. Alex Says:

    No offensive to anyone who’s posted so far, but I tend to find that the “comments” section of most webpages/articles/blog posts is the bathroom graffiti of the Internet, where people go to write offensive, rude scribblings they’d never had the cajones to utter in public.

    As far as why people have this attitude, it has a lot to do with media presentation of women, as well as the way people, especially men, interpret women presented in the media for the sake of their beauty. Like so many things today, people’s views on what constitutes a beautiful woman is influenced, and in many cases dictated, by what’s on the screen. Unfortunately, actual sexual attractiveness is often not the primary reason for a woman to be deemed attractive for the media. The supermodel look, for instance, is mainly due to the ease for which fashion designers can craft clothing for that body type (as an aside, I think the reluctance for fashion designers to use anyone but size zero models just proves that they’re pretentious hacks who have absolutely no idea how to make clothes that have any sort of useful function).

    I also think that a lot of men look at women portrayed as beautiful by the media see them as being purely sex objects (particularly in something like a beauty pageant), and so when they’re presented with a woman who is outside of their definition of a sex object, but said woman is still being presented as sexually attractive, it makes them uncomfortable because then they have to deal with women as people and not sex objects.

    Note though, that i’m not saying that voluptuous women or BBW’s cannot be seen as sex objects or sexually objectified, but that in Western Culture it’s a lot more common for the media version of beauty to be objectified.

  6. Sam Says:

    Good to see everyones back. Enough of the talk about Chloe she isn’t news nor is she interesting. Anyway how can you talk about the Chloe when you have three of the best boob queens in the business in one blog? You’re crazy! Chloe hasn’t even got breasts to speak of and you want to talk about her. You’re Mad!

    Jes, Just to wade in, seeing as you asked so nicely!

    I do agree and don’t at the same time because, as we all know beauty is in the eye if the beholder. But, all said and done, a woman who looks after herself will always catch my eye. But, what do I mean by looking after one’s self. What I mean is a making the best off one’s self. Everyone knows that I am slim’n'staked King but, that is not to say that I do not find larger ladies desirable, I most definitely do.

    A lady who makes the best of herself is the one that does take care of her self but in a way to shows confidence in herself. One of the most attractive women here is Maria Moore but she isn’t a size zero by any measure but, if I had to go on date with anyone she would be first choice other girls would have to be damned special to fill her boots. But, that is because she is obviously great looking with fabulous breasts but she makes the best of herself because she is so confident. And, I am not sure whether a fitness routine would actually add to her charm whatsoever.

    But, I hear what you’re saying, for other people there is always benefit to be gained by honing and toning. But again what about those brothers who love the BBW. If any of them saw their favourite BBW lose weight they would cancel memberships in the twinkling of an eye. So, I believe all considered it is more to do with taste rather than any kind of unified bench mark, it just does not exist.

    Eye of the beholder!

    Sam

  7. Dave Says:

    I don’t even understand the people calling Miss Marshall fat. She’s not. She certainly has a bigger frame than many girls, and she has a great feminine softness to her body and roundness to her features—but she is NOT fat. She MAY be plump. She looks like a woman. She looks normal and healthy instead of the sickly skinny that so many beauty queens seem to go for.

    And as far as exercise, in one of the articles I read about her, she unequivocally stated that she exercised daily.

  8. Sam Says:

    Alex,

    Please do not take this the wrong way! But, if you’re positing a view on a reality from a socio-cognitive perspective. It is better to understand the objects of the subject inter alia prima facie rather than positing a view based on artificial extrapolations. The logic and the logoical result may be off somewhat, THEREFORE RENDERING YOUR VIEW OF NO USE! I find the rational approach is more beneficial.

    I don’t mind the toilet sometimes I used prepare some of best cases there, the peace and quiet always helped.

    Alex, do come again; to the site that is, not the toilet.

  9. Sam Says:

    Oh, Alex I nearly forgot!

    The internet is “in public!” Especially an unrestricted public Blog!

    Bye

    P.s. Have you got big breasts? We’d all like to see them if you have.

  10. Amontillado Says:

    I have a personal teory: fat doesn’y exist! It’s born by our mind.

  11. jubblies Says:

    i’d just like to start by saying how awesome this site is and how much i love most of the women on it, because i must then go on to say how sick i am of this talk!

    I know it’s going to be unpopular of me to say this but why do so many people who find women who are clinically obese insist on implying that the only alternative is a “stick with tits” or a “size 0″?

    I love big breasts far, far more than the next guy and appreciate plenty of larger women for the size of their breasts but lets not beat around the bush here, i appreciate them FOR THE SIZE OF THEIR BREASTS! If women like Maria Moore above for instance had tiny boobs, how many of the visitors to this site would be talking about how beautiful she is or jacking off while looking at her?

    Even taking someone like Lindsey Dawn McKenzie, (in my opinion the perfect body shape for a woman..could do with a bigger ass..) how many people are following her career now that she has had a breast reduction?

    Apart from the guy who made the partronizing comment about it being a sympathy vote, i don’t see how anyone could object to the truth of the other statements. Being overweight at 16 is likely to mean that at 36 she will be at significantly greater health risk than if she was at a more ideal weight (I mean ideal in a medical sense rather than aesthetic sense).

    As i said, don’t get me wrong, i’m a regular visitor to this site and love big boobs unconditionally, however that doesn’t change the fact that the big boobs that we love so much are in some cases attached to women that are damaging their health with the bodies that support them. I don;’t think we should let our lust to the big ones blind us to the need for some of these women to take better care of themselves..let the onslaught begin..

  12. MaGnUs Says:

    Nice Alicia Loren pics; can we have more of that set?

    And about Chloe, I left this comment on the article:

    Now, while I don’t find her attractive, it’s not because of her size… she still seems healthy, she does not seem overweight at all. She’s just normal, not skinny and emaciated-looking.

    Though I must agree that she does not look 16, she very well could pass for 30.

  13. peeb Says:

    1. Chloe Marshall is quite simply not obese. Not. Obese. She is perhaps on the upper end of average, but that is absolutely as far as I’d go there. There are dozens upon dozens of women you see everyday that are that size. The difference is that you don’t see them in beauty pageants. That is, not surrounded by women who absolutely are stick figures.
    2. Since Chloe is NOT! OBESE! health issues simply don’t come into it here. There is no evidence here to suggest she will have health problems now or later.
    3. Jubblies seems to think that there are 2 things here: big boobs, and the bodies the big boobs are attached to. Fact: big boobs are mostly fat. You LOVE fat on women- as long as it is where you’d like it to be, ie, as long as there’s a nipple attached to it. Deal with it.
    4. It’s funny to come home from the pub to this. I just had an argument there with a very skinny woman who was screaming about how fat Kate Winslet is. How ridiculous is that? Not a single man in earshot was on her side. This suggests that…
    5. This whole skinny women as norm for beauty thing? Let’s not blame this all on men. Women have quite a lot- maybe as much- to do with oppressing other women here as men do.

  14. orkbrother Says:

    Hey guys,

    This is a subject that has burned my ass forever. The idea that you have to be a flat-chested stick to be top shelf model is retarded. Most women are not built that way anyway. The curves are what is sexy. Sure a slim girl can be attractive but people need to understand that should not be the standard for beauty. Anyway, great site, Reese. Thanks for your time and effort spent here.

  15. jubblies Says:

    “You LOVE fat on women- as long as it is where you’d like it to be” – isn’t this so obvious as to go without saying? How many men like long thick luxuriant hair on a woman’s head? Now how many would like it just as much if it was covering her back?

    I wasn’t trying to say that Chloe Marshall was obese though i can see how it may have come across like that, i think it’s absolutely fair to say though that someone who is overweight in early life is more likely to be overweight in later life. As being overweight puts more strain on every part of the body yes health does com into it , even at 16.

    At the end of the day, the amount of fat in a woman’s breasts has no bearing on her health. Breast size is much more of a genetically pre-determined factor than waist size.

    As i said it’s not people’s appreciation for the larger woman that bothers me, why should it? It’s the way that everyone who likes big women acts like everyone under a size 20 is a “stick with tits”. Just look at how many of the posts here use a variation on that theme. Is Lindsey Dawn (in the good old days) or Chloe Vevrier or Lorna Morgan or Bea Flora and so on a stick with tits?

  16. Jes Says:

    Sam -

    Thanks for stopping by. It’s good to hear from you. And I do aggree with you entirely, as the subject pertains to reality.

    But, this time, we’re talking about a beauty contest. It isn’t just about being healthy. It’s about being healthiER (and more balanced all-around) than the other brave women on stage, so having a visible edge is everything, in this scenario.

    Of course, if the judging panel were blind (or blind-folded) throughout the competition, and judging were done by touch; I believe the results would quite different from the usual.

    Peeb -

    No one said health ‘issues’. I meant general health and wellness as resulting from lifestyle choices.

    I do agree with you that, if the majority of women didn’t look for the competition amongst themselves, then men wouldn’t be so ready to support such events. Even though we do still enjoy the visceral thrill of it.

    Alex -

    We can’t just blame the men in this one. I’ve often just sat back and watched women in a large crowd. They may not be as aggressive with men, but (…massive over generalization coming…) they are always (ALWAYS) in fierce competition with other women around them. It isn’t always intentional, but it is very natural.

  17. JQ Says:

    I couldn’t have said it better myself Reese. Thanks for your thoughts. JQ

  18. Big Daddy Says:

    Chloe Marshall is beautiful!!!!!!!! In the good old USA she is about average sized, as far as I can see.

  19. ssendam yrammam Says:

    Yes, Chloe is overweight, or any of the other synonyms for overweight that one may use. Her body mass index (BMI) is 25.3, too high by any standard. If curiosity gets the best of you, try looking for yourself.

    http://www.halls.md/ideal-weight/body.htm

    http://www.healthdiscovery.net/links/calculators/ideal_bw_women.htm

    Women with a higher BMI at age 18 have a higher risk of dying prematurely from such nasty things as heart disease, cancer, stroke, type 2 diabetes, high blood pressure, breathing problems, arthritis, gallbladder disease, and osteoarthritis. Overweight women have a significantly higher incidence of breast cancer.

    http://www.hsph.harvard.edu/news/press-releases/2006-releases/press07172006.html

    http://obesity1.tempdomainname.com/subs/fastfacts/Health_Effects.shtml

    Where the body stores the excess fat, such as the waistline, makes the problem worse.

    http://www.womenshealth.gov/faq/weightloss.htm

    If someone likes overweight women, have the balls to say so instead of cloaking your opinions in euphemisms by misusing the word voluptuous and calling anything else a “stick with tits”. Calling a women with a Jayne Mansfield figure a stick with tits indicates skewed perceptions and a defensive attitude. If you like fat girls, good for you and it is not necessary to disparage other body types. Another bandied about phrase is to claim an overweight woman is “shaped like a real woman”, implying anything else is a “false woman”. Certainly, this is preposterous.

    A little less acrimonious labeling will be a welcome change.

  20. Big Daddy Says:

    Thanks for the lecture and lesson on fat people. How much do I owe you?

  21. Vadd Says:

    Beauty is in the eye of the beholder… to coin a phrase.

    I, for one, don’t lie to myself and think for a moment that someone like Chloe or Maria Moore is not fat. They are fat. Sure, it may be a harsh, blunt and even (to some) offensive word. But it is true. Fat is NOT a matter of opinion like many think. The extra weight, rolls around the waist and mid-section, larger breasts, protruding belly, large thighs and ass… this is all because the women in question are fat.

    Now, weather or not you think these (or any other) fat woman is hot- THAT is the opinion. I think many women that are indeed “fat” are crazy hot. And I love the way their bodies look and would not want them to change one bit. But to try and convince myself that Chloe is not fat would be lying wrong. Just because she may have an average body size, still does not mean that her body is not fat. It is. It looks AMAZING, but it is indeed fat. Most average people are fat. This is why a Victorias Secret model gets all the attention she does. It is because her body is unlike most peoples. Slim, toned, healthier… It is an ideal look-almost fantasy. So I can see why people find that attractive.

  22. Sam Says:

    ssendam yrammam,

    I do agree with you but I wouldn’t be so stark about it. But, you make a good point. I feel like I’m the only one in this place who isn’t afraid to say I actually love the slim ‘n’ stacked sisters. But, I do get flack over it though but, I do not care a bit. I’m a s’n's lover and proud!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

    Bring it on fellas, get ready to rumble!

  23. owen Says:

    (this will sound a bit boastful but believe me I’m not telling you this to show off)

    I’m a big man, fat but with very broad shoulders and tall also thanks to my being Welsh I am rather wide of schlong.
    In england this tends to put me at an advantage in terms of attractiveness to thinner ladies that would like a dominant looking partner, I’m also a nice guy too which helps.
    Anyway I have had a few thin and conventionally attractive ladies in my time but they always suffered from the same problems, lovemaking often hurt them and i’d have to go very slow and gently.
    This didn’t suit me as much.
    When I first went out with a lady on the plump side though I found her to be much more accommodating in the bedroom and she would not get hurt either.
    I’ve never been prejudiced against any woman’s body size or anything else but i know that if i want a more fulfilling relationship it’s probably better to go for a bigger girl.

  24. Sam Says:

    Owen,

    You bloody taff giving all the large about the advantage with girls. They’re just too polite to tell you where to stuff your big fat taff carcase.

    Advantage indeed, who are you trying to kid! Oh, and if your knob is that big put your money where your fat gob is, get the tiny Welsh monster out for the everyone to sample your tiny Welsh dragon! Send a photo of it to Mycocksite. I am sure there will be enough room for it on Vix’s site!!!

  25. Big Daddy Says:

    Amen to that Owen, real bigger stronger men need a bigger woman. Those small delicate flowers can’t handle a hungry man. I have meaty strong hands and I need flesh in them, I like to pound a woman as much as I like to make love. Give me da flesh baby.

  26. Joey Says:

    I’ve never seen such self patronizing in my life. Delusions running wild indeed. Bigger sized women are attractive to many men because many have ample assets (bust and butt) but fat men getting ladies is an exception and definitely not the rule. Unfair, but it’s true. Very few women are going to bed at night dreaming about being ravaged by 400lb men.

  27. Frank Says:

    Chloe is a nice looking girl. And good for her that a girl of bigger proportions has won a beauty competition. But… she is a 16-year old girl. Her age concerns me, not her size.

    Beauty contests don’t do it for me – I don’t see the point of competing on looks. However, perhaps I need to be honest enough and say that I might be tempted to watch if such a contest exclusively focused on the busty, curvaceous women that we all enjoy.

    We have had the body size debate so many times before. The commonality on MyBoobSite is that we all love our “F-cup and up…” busty beauties. It would be nice if we can just accept that the well-endowed women we lust after come in all shapes and sizes.

    Of course we all have our individual preferences. As Sam said earlier, beauty is in the eye of the beholder. I personally prefer voluptuous women, who possess the rounded curves to match their huge boobs.

    However, I’m thankful to all our busty goddesses, regardless of size or shape, who are willing to share their magnificent selves with us.

  28. bob Says:

    I see all the ‘usual suspects’ are here…. but I think there is something missing!! :D
    First, AVOID the daily mail, if you are a normal, well balanced person… It only seems to be for utter snobs, who hate ‘rude people’ and thier readers certainly wont be here, where all the ‘dirty’ people are… though they might have heard about it, just so they can say ‘how shocking’ to thier friends……

    I have seen Chloe on ‘this morning’ where she proudly did a fashion show for the ‘normal people’ to help them realise that ‘even they’ can be a model!!

    Next, if you can get http://www.channel4.com/ , then on tuesdays, 8pm (or even online) look for ‘how to look good naked’ for hundreds of ‘normal people, one lucky daring one, get to show that they are not ‘ugly’, they are just *normal*!!!

    and hey, guys, enough of the boob fixation – there are plenty of *other* places that need attention, too! that is why you have two hands and a mouth… one hand on her boobs, one on her soft waist, and your mouth on her lips and neck… I am sure she will thank you for ‘full attention’….. :D :D

  29. Stinger Says:

    yes It’s not nice to disrespect the models, but being fat is nothing to be proud of, nor should it be celebrated or endorsed given the current obesity epidemic. Some girls may stumble upon a site like this and think it’s actually ok to be fat.. Some responsibility should fall on the owner of the site to only show thin girls..

  30. Jes Says:

    It seems that some people have forgotten that in the entirety of known history, sizes 0-4 were considered underweight and un-healthy for all but the last 40 years.

    Even the medical experts can only approximate what is considered fat. If you do some research, you’ll find that women of up to 31% body fat are considered to be of acceptable health. Even 18% body fat is considered to be in good shape. I’ll bet that’s higher than many of you expected.

    Also, keep in mind that the term fat is as subjective as other terms such as fashionable or stupid. So be careful how you label someone who doesn’t fit your ideals, because someone else may just have a label for you.

  31. Sam Says:

    Enough already! More boobs please, Thank you very much!

  32. bob Says:

    FAT is an UGLY word… and I think most doctors will call it ‘slightly overweight’…
    All I would ask is that they make sure they are healty,and able to run a few yards without feeling they are going to faint!! – If *anyone* cannot do this, it is a warning to do something about it – if only for your comfort, and quality of life..

    when it gets so they ‘cannot see their feet’ (I dont mean boobs :) ) or ‘dont really need bikini bottoms’ then I start giving up, But my best mate’s girfreind is like this, and fantastically happy!

    So be confident, girls, there are plenty more like him!!!

  33. Frank Says:

    Are we now going to have to explain that MyBoobSite is an “F-cup and up big boob blog for the breast obsessed”? Boob fixation all the way!

  34. bob Says:

    well, cup size is only ONE thing…. the Number attached to that matters too!! Did you know Faith Brown(famous comedienne) has 36GG(or more!)?? and a GREAT figure to go with it!!
    http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=SjFgN5vlkgQ
    - and note this went out at about 11 in the morning!! :)

    see.. you CAN please both at the same time!! :D :D

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